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 Post subject: Mozarts memory myth....
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:34 am 
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I had a teacher one time who told me about Mozart's legendary musical memory. I was utterly impressed by the tale but soon realized it was just that....a tale.

Mozart wasn't a musical Genius...sorry to burst your fan boy bubbles. His father was a master musical teacher and started teaching Mozart music at the age of 3.....3! And that's all Mozart did....study music everyday, dawn till dusk....from a master teacher. Literally impossible for that situation not to turn out a master musician.

His earlier pieces that he wrote as a "prodigy" weren't anything spectacular. They all sound like the composers he was studying at the time. His masterpieces weren't wrote until well into adult-hood. THAT is when he wrote his groundbreaking pieces.

"Talent doesn't exist. Mastery is 99% work and 1% talent." - Mastery - Robert Greene

P.S. Same exact situation with Tiger Woods...


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 Post subject: Re: Mozarts memory myth....
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:45 am 
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JOVE THE MIGHTY THUNDERER
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Can't say there are many Mozart 'fanboys' here at the moment.

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 Post subject: Re: Mozarts memory myth....
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:40 pm 
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I didn't even know Tiger Woods wrote music. :thumbsup:

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 Post subject: Re: Mozarts memory myth....
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:40 pm 
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Melmoth wrote:
I didn't even know Tiger Woods wrote music. :thumbsup:

He certainly has a talent for pulling waitresses.

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 Post subject: Re: Mozarts memory myth....
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:37 pm 
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Mozart not being a genius is hard for me to fathom!

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 Post subject: Re: Mozarts memory myth....
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:38 pm 
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mikeHCCstudent wrote:
I had a teacher one time who told me about Mozart's legendary musical memory. I was utterly impressed by the tale but soon realized it was just that....a tale.

Mozart wasn't a musical Genius...sorry to burst your fan boy bubbles. His father was a master musical teacher and started teaching Mozart music at the age of 3.....3! And that's all Mozart did....study music everyday, dawn till dusk....from a master teacher. Literally impossible for that situation not to turn out a master musician.

His earlier pieces that he wrote as a "prodigy" weren't anything spectacular. They all sound like the composers he was studying at the time. His masterpieces weren't wrote until well into adult-hood. THAT is when he wrote his groundbreaking pieces.

"Talent doesn't exist. Mastery is 99% work and 1% talent." - Mastery - Robert Greene

P.S. Same exact situation with Tiger Woods...


Really mikeHCCstudent? Talent doesn't exist? Anyone could be a Mozart (inferred) with the right father and teaching? You appear to be looking to start an argument or perhaps you just need to finish grade school before you expound your opinions.


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 Post subject: Re: Mozarts memory myth....
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:38 pm 
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Figaro wrote:
Really mikeHCCstudent? Talent doesn't exist? Anyone could be a Mozart (inferred) with the right father and teaching?...

I'm not in the anti-talent brigade, but imagine if Mozart had a father like, say, Beethoven's father? Safe to say those early prodigious years would have been very different.

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 Post subject: Re: Mozarts memory myth....
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:49 pm 
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Rod Corkin wrote:
Figaro wrote:
Really mikeHCCstudent? Talent doesn't exist? Anyone could be a Mozart (inferred) with the right father and teaching?...

I'm not in the anti-talent brigade, but imagine if Mozart had a father like, say, Beethoven's father? Safe to say those early prodigious years would have been very different.

So Rod, I hope your point is that talent and genius just about always require opportunity. This probably applies to the likes of Einstein, Etc., Etc


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 Post subject: Re: Mozarts memory myth....
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:52 am 
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Figaro wrote:
So Rod, I hope your point is that talent and genius just about always require opportunity. This probably applies to the likes of Einstein, Etc., Etc

I think my point was clear.

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 Post subject: Re: Mozarts memory myth....
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 11:30 pm 
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Digiti wrote:
Mozart not being a genius is hard for me to fathom!


Opportunity has to be there- if Mozart had spent his childhood years til early adulthood with no music lessons and spending it hoeing turnips in the fields, then given music lessons at 21 it'd have been too late to achieve what he did to the level he did, but would still have been a good pianist I expect.

Genius is something you are either born with or not. But if he'd spent his life hoeing the fields, with no access to music lessons at all he'd never have known he had it.

Luckily for us he got the opportunity to shine, as did Beethoven.

Many a child gets music lessons and amount to nothing. Lessons at childhood alone do not appropriate genius. That is inborn.

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 Post subject: Re: Mozarts memory myth....
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 11:32 pm 
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Rod Corkin wrote:
Figaro wrote:
Really mikeHCCstudent? Talent doesn't exist? Anyone could be a Mozart (inferred) with the right father and teaching?...

I'm not in the anti-talent brigade, but imagine if Mozart had a father like, say, Beethoven's father? Safe to say those early prodigious years would have been very different.


I don't see too much difference in their fathers- both got given music lessons at a young age and their talents were noticed quickly.

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 Post subject: Re: Mozarts memory myth....
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 11:52 pm 
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AeolianHarp wrote:
I don't see too much difference in their fathers- both got given music lessons at a young age and their talents were noticed quickly.

Beethoven's father was quite a different character compared to Mozart's. Though B's father recognised his son's talent he was a violent and abusive alcoholic. Beethoven had no respect for him.

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 Post subject: Re: Mozarts memory myth....
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 12:01 am 
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Rod Corkin wrote:
AeolianHarp wrote:
I don't see too much difference in their fathers- both got given music lessons at a young age and their talents were noticed quickly.

Beethoven's father was quite a different character compared to Mozart's. Though B's father recognised his son's talent he was a violent and abusive alcoholic. Beethoven had no respect for him.


I wasn't meaning the characters of the fathers- different they were yes- I was referring to the fact that they both had music lessons and ambitious fathers- both wanted their sons to do well at music- which they did!
Regarding Beethoven's father- it has been said that his character was made out to be worse than he actually was- yes he got Ludwig out of bed to play, yes he was a drunken father, but said to be a happy drunk type who didn't hit his wife nor his children ( no more than the usual smacks children got then anyway).He just got too drunk to provide for his family- that was his problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Mozarts memory myth....
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:45 am 
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AeolianHarp wrote:
I wasn't meaning the characters of the fathers- different they were yes- I was referring to the fact that they both had music lessons and ambitious fathers- both wanted their sons to do well at music- which they did!
Regarding Beethoven's father- it has been said that his character was made out to be worse than he actually was- yes he got Ludwig out of bed to play, yes he was a drunken father, but said to be a happy drunk type who didn't hit his wife nor his children ( no more than the usual smacks children got then anyway).He just got too drunk to provide for his family- that was his problem.

Sorry but I cannot accept this 'happy drunk' portrayal. Where did you read that? But really Mozart's early years were completely different to Beethoven's, and that point is beyond argument. The child Mozart toured Europe with his father and became an international sensation, and Leopold helped with many of M's juvenile compositions.

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 Post subject: Re: Mozarts memory myth....
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 12:05 pm 
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Sorry but I cannot accept this 'happy drunk' portrayal. Where did you read that?


It is in nearly all sources that I have read about his years in Bonn. I have never read anything that prooves that he beat Ludwig badly as a child, nor his wife, nor that he hurled abuse at them- certainly nothing like he is portrayed in the BBC docu drama with Paul Rhys.

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But really Mozart's early years were completely different to Beethoven's, and that point is beyond argument. The child Mozart toured Europe with his father and became an international sensation, and Leopold helped with many of M's juvenile compositions.


Yes they were different in that aspect- but Leopold pushed Mozart too, had him working when he was tired out- just that Mozart was on the stage and Ludwig was got out of bed to perform for his father's friends. Both were expected to practise and play nearly all their waking hours- just the places they did it were different.

Mozart was encouraged to compose due to his father's ambitions- Mozart was a cash machine to him.

They both had tough childhoods.

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