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Rod Corkin
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 Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:38 am Post subject: |
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| Sorin Eushayson wrote: |
| Rod Corkin wrote: |
| I think the sound for Norrington's is very poor. For the last movement the orchestra seems to have moved back 50 yards compared to the first. And the standard of playing is not as good as it could be. I go for the HB recording easy for this one. |
Are you sure about this, Rod? I just compared the last movement of Norrington's with the others and it actually seems a little fuller and louder to me... I hate suggesting this, but perhaps there was a writing error when they made your CD? I've had that happen to me before. Then again, I may or may not be deaf!  |
Well I've bough the Norrington 7th disk twice, once on its own, the other in the set. I'm sure both exhibited the same phenomenon - the orchestra is much more distant in the soundstage in the finale. Certainly compared to the Sym 2 & 8 disk (the first that was released) the sound is not in the same league, in fact none of the other disks in the Norrington set sound as good as the 2 & 8 disk. I'd double check the set version (ie the later release)of the 7th tonight, just to make sure.
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Sorin Eushayson
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Rod Corkin wrote: |
| Well I've bough the Norrington 7th disk twice, once on its own, the other in the set. I'm sure both exhibited the same phenomenon - the orchestra is much more distant in the soundstage in the finale. Certainly compared to the Sym 2 & 8 disk (the first that was released) the sound is not in the same league, in fact none of the other disks in the Norrington set sound as good as the 2 & 8 disk. I'd double check the set version (ie the later release)of the 7th tonight, just to make sure. |
Well, I trust you on this one... I guess I just don't hear it. 
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Rod Corkin
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Sorin Eushayson wrote: |
Well, I trust you on this one... I guess I just don't hear it. |
Don't trust me, the Virgin release is actually as you say. But my original EMI disk was a mess sonically with 7th. Maybe they addressed this issue for the re-release, or maybe as you suggested I had a duff EMI disk, but I've never had such a duff disk ever before or since if that was the case.
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Sorin Eushayson
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Rod Corkin wrote: |
| Sorin Eushayson wrote: |
Well, I trust you on this one... I guess I just don't hear it. |
Don't trust me, the Virgin release is actually as you say. But my original EMI disk was a mess sonically with 7th. Maybe they addressed this issue for the re-release, or maybe as you suggested I had a duff EMI disk, but I've never had such a duff disk ever before or since if that was the case. |
Interesting... well, I'm glad they got it fixed then. Was wondering if I was crazy for a minute there (going crazy???)! I still think Norrington handles that fantastic fourth movement better than any of the others I've heard.
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Rod Corkin
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Sorin Eushayson wrote: |
Interesting... well, I'm glad they got it fixed then. Was wondering if I was crazy for a minute there (going crazy???)! I still think Norrington handles that fantastic fourth movement better than any of the others I've heard. |
Well now it's been 'beefed up' maybe you're right! I'm not even sure if I had listened properly to this movement in the Norrington set, such was my experience with the EMI disk.
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Rod Corkin
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| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Rod Corkin wrote: |
| Sorin Eushayson wrote: |
Interesting... well, I'm glad they got it fixed then. Was wondering if I was crazy for a minute there (going crazy???)! I still think Norrington handles that fantastic fourth movement better than any of the others I've heard. |
Well now it's been 'beefed up' maybe you're right! I'm not even sure if I had listened properly to this movement in the Norrington set, such was my experience with the EMI disk. |
Here is the final movement (Allegro con brio) from the Norrington set on Virgin (avoid the EMI release). A good account...
Symphony No. 7 in A major, Op. 92- Allegro con brio
http://www.mediafire.com/?xm1ddywecdl
http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Symphonies-Overtures-Classical-Norrington/dp/B00005A9O0
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Masolino
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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Did anyone upload Bruggen's 7th? Here's the finale:
IV. Allegro con brio from Symphony No7 in A, Op. 92 http://www.mediafire.com/?l0n1msjw911
Re: the Immerseel set. I love the sonorities he conjures from his orchestra. His 7th doesn't sound like anyone else's and I consider that to be a good thing. 
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Rod Corkin
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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No don't think so. Will report on this tonight, though I recall my own experience of Bruggen's set was not favourable.
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Masolino
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Rod Corkin wrote: |
Will report on this tonight, though I recall my own experience of Bruggen's set was not favourable. |
That's OK. My experience with the set, needless to say, is very favourable. 
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Rod Corkin
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Masolino wrote: |
| Rod Corkin wrote: |
Will report on this tonight, though I recall my own experience of Bruggen's set was not favourable. |
That's OK. My experience with the set, needless to say, is very favourable. |
Listening to it now, it all comes back. The opening is strangely hesitant, I don't understand what Bruggen was after here. There is something about this performance than makes the music seem rather insubstantial, Bruggen's choice of tempo lessens the effectiveness of the piece I think, it just all goes too swiftly by without much sinking in. A touch broader tempo would have helped, the orchestra is pretty flawless though.
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Masolino
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:02 am Post subject: |
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| Rod Corkin wrote: |
Listening to it now, it all comes back. The opening is strangely hesitant, I don't understand what Bruggen was after here. |
Lack of comprehension is as common in music as in language. I do like Bruggen's slightly over-the-top interpretation here myself -- I think it is consistent with the eccentric character of the symphony as a whole.
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Rod Corkin
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| Masolino wrote: |
Lack of comprehension is as common in music as in language. |
That was my polite way of saying he made a mistake.
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Rod Corkin
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| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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Considering the final movement has been in discussion, members may be interested he hear the original source of the principle theme of that movement. It comes from his folksong arrangement of 'Save me from the grave and wise' WoO154 Nr8. Listen to the instrumental interlude that follows the chorus.
From the CD...
http://www.bullmoose.com/rel/v2_viewupc.php?storenr=258&upc=07464643012
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Rod Corkin
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:17 am Post subject: |
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| Rod Corkin wrote: |
Considering the final movement has been in discussion, members may be interested he hear the original source of the principle theme of that movement. It comes from his folksong arrangement of 'Save me from the grave and wise' WoO154 Nr8. Listen to the instrumental interlude that follows the chorus.
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Ah so you're all familiar with this piece already, forgive me.
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Masolino
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| Rod Corkin wrote: |
| Masolino wrote: |
Lack of comprehension is as common in music as in language. |
That was my polite way of saying he made a mistake. |
And he would think you made a mistake as well!
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Masolino
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Rod Corkin wrote: |
Considering the final movement has been in discussion, members may be interested he hear the original source of the principle theme of that movement. It comes from his folksong arrangement of 'Save me from the grave and wise' WoO154 Nr8. Listen to the instrumental interlude that follows the chorus.
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Do you mean that Beethoven borrowed the motif from himself?
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Rod Corkin
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Masolino wrote: |
Do you mean that Beethoven borrowed the motif from himself? |
Well the 'theme' as found in the folksong partially derives from the last few notes of the chorus melody, which I presume Beethoven was provided. So, not all Beethoven's work here maybe, but all in all I would give Beethoven the lion's share of the invention. Listen and judge for yourself.
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Sorin Eushayson
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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Listened to the Bruggen sample. He does the same overly-hesitant pause at the beginning of the movement that Gardiner does, quite annoying. Despite this, the rest of the movement is quite good! Nice loud drums and brass.
I have not found a period-performance of the Fifth Symphony that's all that great, unfortunately... Do you think you could upload Bruggen's first movement of that in the Fifth Symphony topic, Masolino? Pretty please?
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premont
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Sorin Eushayson wrote: |
I have not found a period-performance of the Fifth Symphony that's all that great, unfortunately... Do you think you could upload Bruggen's first movement of that in the Fifth Symphony topic, Masolino? Pretty please? |
Nor have I, but I have not heard Gardiner (whose polished style I generally dislike), nor the Hanover band. .
And I am not that keen on Brüggens effort. He sounds so utterly provincial.
Maybe van Immerseel is our man
I agree with Rod, that a recording by Savall would be desirable.
Especially the Fifth seems ideally suited to the style, he strikes in his Eroica.
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Masolino
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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| premont wrote: |
And I am not that keen on Brüggens effort. He sounds so utterly provincial.
Maybe van Immerseel is our man
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Well many of us have owned the van Immerseel set, and to say the least I won't have him as "our man"
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