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Robert Newman
FIELD MARSHAL
Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 2760
Location: London, England
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 Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 1:45 pm Post subject: JS Bach - Mass in F Major, BWV233 |
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Another magnificent Bach chorus.
Johann Sebastian Bach
Mass in F Major, BWV 233
(Gloria)
Bach Collegium Stuttgart
Helmuth Rilling
Concerto Royale
http://www.mediafire.com/?xenyug2gmmi
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Melmoth
COLONEL
Joined: 04 May 2008
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Location: England
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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Good choice Rob, excellent piece of music this. I've got a version of this by Phillippe Herreweghe which, if memory serves correctly, is much more restrained sounding than this version which seems to come on pretty strong. Marvelous music though. 
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Rod Corkin
THE MIGHTY THUNDERER
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
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Location: London, England
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Melmoth wrote: |
| Good choice Rob, excellent piece of music this. I've got a version of this by Phillippe Herreweghe which, if memory serves correctly, is much more restrained sounding than this version which seems to come on pretty strong. Marvelous music though. |
Well the old-school recordings do tend to come on rather strong, and Rob's got them all it seems!
A good effort here from JSB, if a bit overlong. He doesn't 'do' choruses in the bold 'Anthemic' style though, I've yet to hear a Bach chorus that really took my breath away.
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Sorin Eushayson
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Joined: 03 Jun 2008
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Location: Los Angeles, California, United States
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Rod Corkin wrote: |
| A good effort here from JSB, if a bit overlong. He doesn't 'do' choruses in the bold 'Anthemic' style though, I've yet to hear a Bach chorus that really took my breath away. |
Really?!  I guess Handel and Bach make different use of choruses: Handel from a more theatrical point of view and Bach from a technical standpoint. Perhaps I will post a topic on the tremendous choral work in Bach's St. Matthew Passion and we'll see what Mein Kaiser thinks then! 
The Gloria in this Mass is one of the most dramatic of the four. Rilling's tempo here is perfect, as is his tempo in the Gloria of the G Minor Mass, which I'm looking forward to. Thanks again for starting this series, Rob; Bach's other masses deserve this time in the spotlight as well!
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Bach: Clavierübung II
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Rod Corkin
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Sorin Eushayson wrote: |
| Rod Corkin wrote: |
| A good effort here from JSB, if a bit overlong. He doesn't 'do' choruses in the bold 'Anthemic' style though, I've yet to hear a Bach chorus that really took my breath away. |
Really?! I guess Handel and Bach make different use of choruses: Handel from a more theatrical point of view and Bach from a technical standpoint. Perhaps I will post a topic on the tremendous choral work in Bach's St. Matthew Passion and we'll see what Mein Kaiser thinks then!
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Well believe it or not composers other than JSB were capable of complex music too!! 
But I've posted so many Handel choruses here already you can judge for yourself their respective merits. Sure bring on the Passions.
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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin
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Sorin Eushayson
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Joined: 03 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:00 am Post subject: |
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| Rod Corkin wrote: |
| Well believe it or not composers other than JSB were capable of complex music too!! |
I didn't say Handel wasn't complex. Bach just focuses more on fugue and texture, whereas Handel's choral work is derived from his operatic and oratorio experience - not to say Handel couldn't make use of fugue and texture as well, I'm sure! The Handel concertos and choruses you've posted have, indeed, proved that.
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Das ist leben.
My Current Thread...
Bach: Clavierübung II
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Rod Corkin
THE MIGHTY THUNDERER
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:56 am Post subject: |
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| Sorin Eushayson wrote: |
I didn't say Handel wasn't complex. Bach just focuses more on fugue and texture, whereas Handel's choral work is derived from his operatic and oratorio experience - not to say Handel couldn't make use of fugue and texture as well, I'm sure! The Handel concertos and choruses you've posted have, indeed, proved that. |
That is so. I advise you try my latest offerings, this is one of the all time great vocal pieces...
http://classicalmusicmayhem.freeforums.org/handel-l-allegro-il-penseroso-ed-il-moderato-t559.html
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Last edited by Rod Corkin on Sat Jul 05, 2008 9:27 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Leporello87
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Joined: 03 Oct 2007
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Location: San Francisco, California, U.S.A.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:17 am Post subject: |
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| Thanks for posting this, Robert. It's been a long time since I last listened to these Bach masses, so I had a run through them again tonight, thanks to this thread. Splendid music.
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Rod Corkin
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| Leporello87 wrote: |
| Thanks for posting this, Robert. It's been a long time since I last listened to these Bach masses, so I had a run through them again tonight, thanks to this thread. Splendid music. |
This forum and indeed all the Instrumental and Vocal forums, are now conspiracy free (Figaro has been moved to General, which is the forum I originally intended for such topics). I look forward to some stimulating topics from those who claim they were put off from posting by the presence of such things in the music forums. 
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Brian
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Robert, thanks for starting these threads on the Bach Lutheran masses. I had been neglecting them for some reason, but I'm glad you brought them to my attention. There's a sense of deja vu in them, because I've heard a lot of the movements before in their original appearances in the cantatas, but they work in their new context as well.
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Rod Corkin
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Brian wrote: |
| Robert, thanks for starting these threads on the Bach Lutheran masses. I had been neglecting them for some reason, but I'm glad you brought them to my attention. There's a sense of deja vu in them, because I've heard a lot of the movements before in their original appearances in the cantatas, but they work in their new context as well. |
Well you will have no sense of deja vu with the Handel oratorio topics, most of this stuff will no doubt be new to you. So I look forward to reading your assessments of those too in due course!
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Sorin Eushayson
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Rod Corkin
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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Had a listen to the above track. Like the A major I think the music benefits from this treatment.
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smileyman
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Location: Idaho Falls, ID
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Rod Corkin wrote: |
A good effort here from JSB, if a bit overlong. He doesn't 'do' choruses in the bold 'Anthemic' style though, I've yet to hear a Bach chorus that really took my breath away. |
I think you'll have a really long wait to hear an anthem from Herr Bach, as that simply isn't his style. His choruses can be very complex and quite beautiful (as the samples from these Masses indicate), but you're expecting something from him that I don't think he ever did. He simply didn't write music that way.
Maybe if he'd lived 50 years later he might've (I think CPE Bach has some great choruses for example), but you won't find that from him. There are Lutheran composers who do have grand choruses, Praetorious comes to mind on that one. I'll see about digging up something from him for a comparison.
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Rod Corkin
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| smileyman wrote: |
| Rod Corkin wrote: |
A good effort here from JSB, if a bit overlong. He doesn't 'do' choruses in the bold 'Anthemic' style though, I've yet to hear a Bach chorus that really took my breath away. |
...but you're expecting something from him that I don't think he ever did. He simply didn't write music that way.
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Not really, I acknowledge just above that he didn't do choruses in that style. I just find Bach's method rather mundane in comparison.
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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin
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