Another magnificent Bach chorus.

Johann Sebastian Bach
Mass in F Major, BWV 233
(Gloria)

Bach Collegium Stuttgart
Helmuth Rilling
Concerto Royale

http://www.mediafire.com/?xenyug2gmmi

Good choice Rob, excellent piece of music this. I've got a version of this by Phillippe Herreweghe which, if memory serves correctly, is much more restrained sounding than this version which seems to come on pretty strong. Marvelous music though.

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Melmoth wrote:

Good choice Rob, excellent piece of music this. I've got a version of this by Phillippe Herreweghe which, if memory serves correctly, is much more restrained sounding than this version which seems to come on pretty strong. Marvelous music though.

Well the old-school recordings do tend to come on rather strong, and Rob's got them all it seems!

A good effort here from JSB, if a bit overlong. He doesn't 'do' choruses in the bold 'Anthemic' style though, I've yet to hear a Bach chorus that really took my breath away.

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Rod Corkin wrote:

A good effort here from JSB, if a bit overlong. He doesn't 'do' choruses in the bold 'Anthemic' style though, I've yet to hear a Bach chorus that really took my breath away.

Really?! I guess Handel and Bach make different use of choruses: Handel from a more theatrical point of view and Bach from a technical standpoint. Perhaps I will post a topic on the tremendous choral work in Bach's St. Matthew Passion and we'll see what Mein Kaiser thinks then!

The Gloria in this Mass is one of the most dramatic of the four. Rilling's tempo here is perfect, as is his tempo in the Gloria of the G Minor Mass, which I'm looking forward to. Thanks again for starting this series, Rob; Bach's other masses deserve this time in the spotlight as well!

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Sorin Eushayson wrote:

Rod Corkin wrote: A good effort here from JSB, if a bit overlong. He doesn't 'do' choruses in the bold 'Anthemic' style though, I've yet to hear a Bach chorus that really took my breath away. Really?! I guess Handel and Bach make different use of choruses: Handel from a more theatrical point of view and Bach from a technical standpoint. Perhaps I will post a topic on the tremendous choral work in Bach's St. Matthew Passion and we'll see what Mein Kaiser thinks then!

Well believe it or not composers other than JSB were capable of complex music too!!

But I've posted so many Handel choruses here already you can judge for yourself their respective merits. Sure bring on the Passions.

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Rod Corkin wrote:

Well believe it or not composers other than JSB were capable of complex music too!!

I didn't say Handel wasn't complex. Bach just focuses more on fugue and texture, whereas Handel's choral work is derived from his operatic and oratorio experience - not to say Handel couldn't make use of fugue and texture as well, I'm sure! The Handel concertos and choruses you've posted have, indeed, proved that.

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My Current Thread:
Bach - Cello Suites

Sorin Eushayson wrote:

I didn't say Handel wasn't complex. Bach just focuses more on fugue and texture, whereas Handel's choral work is derived from his operatic and oratorio experience - not to say Handel couldn't make use of fugue and texture as well, I'm sure! The Handel concertos and choruses you've posted have, indeed, proved that.

That is so. I advise you try my latest offerings, this is one of the all time great vocal pieces...

http://classicalmusicmayhem.freeforums.org/handel-l-allegro-il-penseroso-ed-il-moderato-t559.html

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Thanks for posting this, Robert. It's been a long time since I last listened to these Bach masses, so I had a run through them again tonight, thanks to this thread. Splendid music.

Leporello87 wrote:

Thanks for posting this, Robert. It's been a long time since I last listened to these Bach masses, so I had a run through them again tonight, thanks to this thread. Splendid music.

This forum and indeed all the Instrumental and Vocal forums, are now conspiracy free (Figaro has been moved to General, which is the forum I originally intended for such topics). I look forward to some stimulating topics from those who claim they were put off from posting by the presence of such things in the music forums.

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Robert, thanks for starting these threads on the Bach Lutheran masses. I had been neglecting them for some reason, but I'm glad you brought them to my attention. There's a sense of deja vu in them, because I've heard a lot of the movements before in their original appearances in the cantatas, but they work in their new context as well.

Brian wrote:

Robert, thanks for starting these threads on the Bach Lutheran masses. I had been neglecting them for some reason, but I'm glad you brought them to my attention. There's a sense of deja vu in them, because I've heard a lot of the movements before in their original appearances in the cantatas, but they work in their new context as well.

Well you will have no sense of deja vu with the Handel oratorio topics, most of this stuff will no doubt be new to you. So I look forward to reading your assessments of those too in due course!

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From the CD:

{Available for purchase here at Amazon.com}

Bach: Mass in F Major, BWV 233 - Gloria in Excelsis (Purcell Quartet)

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Had a listen to the above track. Like the A major I think the music benefits from this treatment.

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Rod Corkin wrote:

A good effort here from JSB, if a bit overlong. He doesn't 'do' choruses in the bold 'Anthemic' style though, I've yet to hear a Bach chorus that really took my breath away.

I think you'll have a really long wait to hear an anthem from Herr Bach, as that simply isn't his style. His choruses can be very complex and quite beautiful (as the samples from these Masses indicate), but you're expecting something from him that I don't think he ever did. He simply didn't write music that way.

Maybe if he'd lived 50 years later he might've (I think CPE Bach has some great choruses for example), but you won't find that from him. There are Lutheran composers who do have grand choruses, Praetorious comes to mind on that one. I'll see about digging up something from him for a comparison.

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smileyman wrote:

Rod Corkin wrote: A good effort here from JSB, if a bit overlong. He doesn't 'do' choruses in the bold 'Anthemic' style though, I've yet to hear a Bach chorus that really took my breath away. ...but you're expecting something from him that I don't think he ever did. He simply didn't write music that way.

Not really, I acknowledge just above that he didn't do choruses in that style. I just find Bach's method rather mundane in comparison.

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