CLASSICAL MUSIC MAYHEM!! The classical music forum where the MUSIC comes first!
Welcome
Welcome to ClassicalMusicMayhem!!.
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free, so please, join our community today!
Joined: 28 Sep 2007 Posts: 5317 Location: London, England
Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:11 pm Post subject:
smileyman wrote:
Rod Corkin wrote:
Ah yes I forgot, it's 4th July weekend. Oh how you guys must curse the day you extracted yourselves from the warm, tender, benevolent arms of the British... just to avoid paying some tax. A lesson for the world!
Well once the colonies left, Britain's Empire quickly crumbled. We just led the way!
Well by default if the colonies leave the Empire shrinks! But you tell those in Zimbabwe they are better off now than they were in the good old days.
Joined: 12 Jan 2008 Posts: 725 Location: Idaho Falls, ID
Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 3:14 pm Post subject:
Brandenburg Concerto No. 4 in G major, BWV 1049
Title on autograph score: Concerto for a Violin, two Fiauti d'Echo, due Violini, una Viola è Violone in Ripieno, Violoncello è Continuo.
1. Allegro
2. Andante
3. Presto
Concertino: violin, two recorders or two flutes
Ripieno: two violins, viola, cello, violone and basso continuo
The violin part in this concerto is extremely virtuosic in the first and third movements. In the second movement, the violin provides a bass when the concertino group plays unaccompanied.
Bach adapted the 4th Brandenburg concerto as the last of his set of 6 harpsichord concertos, the concerto for harpsichord, two recorders and strings in F major, BWV 1057. As well as taking on most of the solo violin's role, the harpsichord also takes over some of the recorders' parts in the andante, plays a basso continuo role at times and occasionally adds a fourth contrapuntal part to an originally three-part texture (something which Bach occasionally did while improvising). The harpsichord concerto is thus more than a mere transcription.
Of all the Brandenburg concertos, this is my least favorite. The flutes dominate throughout, and that's not an instrument that interests me too much. I think that the allegro movement is too long to sustain interest in the flutes throughout it's length. The andante has a nice lilting feel to it, but is again dominated by the woodwinds. In the final movement we hear more strings, which quite honestly comes as a welcome relief after the previous two movements. Very dance like rythms throughout.
For the recordings themselves, Pinnock's is perhaps a bit too bright, though you get more sense of the strings throughout. Hogwood's has a bad string sound throughout--too my ears it has some serious scraping sounds. Marriner's was very good for this one, perhaps the best of the lot. Savall again has good sound quality and engineering and playing.
Joined: 12 Jan 2008 Posts: 725 Location: Idaho Falls, ID
Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 3:25 pm Post subject:
Brandenburg Concerto No. 5 in D major, BWV 1050
Title on autograph score: Concerto 5to d une Traversiere, une Violino principale, une Violino è una Viola in ripieno, Violoncello, Violone è Cembalo concertato.
The harpsichord is both a concertino and a ripieno instrument: in the concertino passages the part is obbligato; in the ripieno passages it has a figured bass part and plays continuo.
This concerto makes use of a popular chamber music ensemble of the time (flute, violin, and harpsichord), which Bach used on their own for the middle movement. It is believed that it was written in 1719, to show off a new harpsichord by Michael Mietke which Bach had brought back from Berlin for the Cöthen court. It is also thought that Bach wrote it for a competition at Dresden with the French composer and organist Louis Marchand; in the central movement, Bach uses one of Marchand's themes. Marchand fled before the competition could take place, apparently scared off in the face of Bach's great reputation of virtuosity and improvisation.
The concerto is well suited throughout to showing off the qualities of a fine harpsichord and the virtuosity of its player, but especially in the lengthy solo 'cadenza' to the first movement. It seems almost certain that Bach, considered a great organ and harpsichord virtuoso, was the harpsichord soloist at the premiere. Scholars have seen in this work the origins of the solo keyboard concerto; indeed it is said to be the first-ever example.
An earlier version, BWV 1050a, has innumerable small differences from its later cousin, but only two main ones: there is no part for cello, and there is a shorter and less elaborate harpsichord cadenza in the first movement. (The cello part in BWV 1050, when it differs from the violone part, doubles the left hand of the harpsichord.)
On to the fifth. This comes as a welcome relief after listening to the entirety of the fourth. The Allegro is nice and quick, the winds are featured, but don't dominate as they do with the fourth. Second movement is quite slow in comparison to the first. All of the concertos have a fast-slow-fast structure, but this one has more striking difference in tempo than the others. The final movement is one of my favorite movements of all the Brandenburg concertos--there's a light, playful nature about it that I love.
As far as the recordings themselves go: Savall once again turns in a top-notch performance (really, everything he touches is gold). Marriner's is right up there on this one though, with a richer and lusher string section. Hogwood's sound quality is this one is really poor--almost unlistenable actually. In this one Pinnock's may be the best of the lot with good sound and excellent playing throughout.
Almost done with these. Number six will be finished on Monday, with a review or recap of the whole kit 'n' kaboodle.
_________________ "I learned more from a three minute record, than I ever did in school."
I wouldn't say the prominent role of the flute is a problem per se, but you need to write well for an instrument like the flute if you're giving it a prominent role. Of your tracks I'd say Pinnock's is much better than the first two tracks, much more life to it, though a bit bright as you say. Savall's does not stand out so much on this occasion to my mind, I think this piece needs a lot of sparkle to have any chance of success. I think I'd go for Pinnock's this time (turning the treble knob down a bit!).
Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:30 am Post subject: OPPP Brandenburg
The talk of Schoonderwoerd doing Beethoven pianoforte concertos with an (almost) one-to-a-part orchestra raised eyebrows, or sometimes hell, among reactionary listeners everywhere, but no one seems to have cared that there have been several Brandenburg recordings using true one-to-a-part ensembles. The recording by the iconoclastic Giardino armonico (Teldec) almost certainly is one of them, but I am positive that Concerto Italiano (dir. Rinaldo Alessadrini) made one, in which only 6 string players are present in a concerto grosso like No.1 and five in No.2.
Joined: 03 Jun 2008 Posts: 1079 Location: Los Angeles, California, United States
Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:56 am Post subject:
I liked these, Masolino. In Smiley's absence you've presented some nice recordings. The pace through Concerto 1 is nice and speedy, too! I remember seeing this album in my local music store because of that strange cover art, though; a deer in a parking garage...
Joined: 12 Jan 2008 Posts: 725 Location: Idaho Falls, ID
Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:42 pm Post subject:
These are very nice indeed. Excellent work, though I think I still prefer Savall's and Pinnock's over these.
Very strange artwork indeed with the deer in the parking garage. To address Sorin's comment about my absence--I'm out of town right now with no access to my music at home. I should be back sometime this weekend at which point I'll finish these up.
_________________ "I learned more from a three minute record, than I ever did in school."
Joined: 12 Jan 2008 Posts: 725 Location: Idaho Falls, ID
Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:03 am Post subject:
Brandenburg Concerto Number 6
Title on autograph score: Concerto 6to à due Viole da Braccio, due Viole da Gamba, Violoncello, Violone e Cembalo.
Allegro
Adagio ma non troppo
Allegro
Instrumentation: two violas da braccio, two violas da gamba, cello, violone, and harpsichord
The absence of violins is unusual. Viola da braccio means the normal viola, and is used here to distinguish it from the "viola da gamba". When the work was written in 1721, the viola da gamba was already an old-fashioned instrument: the strong supposition that one viola da gamba part was taken by his employer, Prince Leopold, also points to a likely reason for the concerto's composition—Leopold wished to join his Kapellmeister playing music.
The two violas start the first movement with a vigorous subject in close canon, and as the movement progresses, the other instruments are gradually drawn into the seemingly uninterrupted steady flow of melodic invention which shows the composer's mastery of polyphony. The two violas da gamba are silent in the second movement, leaving the texture of a trio sonata for two violas and continuo, although the cello has a decorated version of the continuo bass line. In the last movement, the spirit of the gigue underlies everything, as it did in the finale of the fifth concerto.
And here we come to the end of our tale, and also one of my favorite of the concertos. The thing one notices first is that the movements flow into each other nearly seamlessly, which hasn't been true for the other concertos. While Bach still holds to the Fast-Slow-Fast structure, there's more balance and unity between the sections of music. While not as technically challenging as some of the other concertos, this one maintains a sense of warmth about it that I quite enjoy.
Once again, here are the opening allegros from our four conductors: Savall, Pinnock, Hogwood, and Marriner.
This has been a fun journey through the greatness of Bach's Concertos. Most of the technical information regarding the Brandenburg Concertos I nicked from Wikipedia, so you can read it in more detail here if you'd like. As far as the recordings go, for me it's Savall tops, followed closely by Pinnock and Marriner. If you're not a fan of historically informed performance, you can't go wrong with Marriner. He brings a warmth to Bach that is sometimes lacking from other conductors. If you want to stick with HIP recordings, then go with Pinnock, since Savall is now out of print and very expensive to find.
_________________ "I learned more from a three minute record, than I ever did in school."
Joined: 03 Jun 2008 Posts: 1079 Location: Los Angeles, California, United States
Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:42 am Post subject:
Welcome back (again) Smiley! There are lots of samples flying about the forum lately; the place is still reeling from my most recent barrage. The barrage which, through valiant service, I achieve the rank of Major! Will give your samples a listen-to.
Smileyman wrote:
The absence of violins is unusual. Viola da braccio means the normal viola, and is used here to distinguish it from the "viola da gamba".
Just wanna make a note of this: some of Bach's works for Viola da Gamba & Harpsichord are very rich-sounding to the ear and quite enjoyable. Mine are from the Brilliant Classics Bach Edition, which is probably the best of the three complete editions (Mozart, Bach, and Beethoven) I have. I was surprised by how great the VdG sounds, it really has that ancient, old-world sound to it...
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum You cannot attach files in this forum You cannot download files in this forum
Personal preferences are irrational.
The barrage which, through valiant service, I achieve the rank of Major!