Here is something you don't hear every day. The scherzo of the Archduke performed actually as it should be - at a tempo that is quicker than the usual moderate waltz that is made of it, plus the trio section is repeated.

Have a listen to the Scherzo performed by the Castle Trio on period instruments and let me know what you think...

http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Archduke-Trio-Schubert-flat/dp/B00005RFSD

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I almost forgot about this topic!

A very good performance, Rod. I think this trio complements the 5th Piano Concerto nicely and quite often play them side-by-side. The recording I have takes this passage slower than this; I much prefer the pacing in your sample. Thanks for this!

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Sorin Eushayson wrote:

I almost forgot about this topic! A very good performance, Rod. I think this trio complements the 5th Piano Concerto nicely and quite often play them side-by-side. The recording I have takes this passage slower than this; I much prefer the pacing in your sample. Thanks for this!

Have you ever heard it with the trio repeated before? I certainly haven't, the scherzo is usually performed so slowly that it would take all day if they repeated the trio section, which is why I presume the repeat is almost always omitted.

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Rod Corkin wrote:

Have you ever heard it with the trio repeated before?

No, I haven't. This movement should be played as fast or maybe even faster than the sample above; as you noted, when it's not, they almost have to cut the repeat...

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Whilst on the subject of Op97 I remembered we have the first movement on period instruments here too, in the 'Beethoven Fortepiano Showcase' topic, performed by the Trondlin Trio. Check this out...

http://classicalmusicmayhem.freeforums.org/post1014.html#1014


See at CD Universe

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Rod Corkin wrote:

Have you ever heard it with the trio repeated before? I certainly haven't, the scherzo is usually performed so slowly that it would take all day if they repeated the trio section, which is why I presume the repeat is almost always omitted.

I haven't ever heard it repeated, but then the only versions of this piece I've ever listened to are the ones in the DG Complete Beethoven and your sample so I don't exactly have a broad range for comparison.

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smileyman wrote:

I haven't ever heard it repeated, but then the only versions of this piece I've ever listened to are the ones in the DG Complete Beethoven and your sample so I don't exactly have a broad range for comparison.

In terms of the Scherzo repeat there most likely is no range for comparison, I suspect this is it!! Anyway who needs a range for comparison when everybody else plays it too slow... and circumcised!

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Gave the Op. 97 in the link a listen-to. Liked it, but could have been performed maybe a tad faster? This trio sounds excellent on period instruments, though!

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Sorin Eushayson wrote:

Gave the Op. 97 in the link a listen-to. Liked it, but could have been performed maybe a tad faster? This trio sounds excellent on period instruments, though!

Yes a tad faster would have helped.

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Schubert's great Eb trio is one of my favourite piano trios, especially the wonderful first movement, so full of surprises and unexpected turns.

Wolfpaw wrote:

Schubert's great Eb trio is one of my favourite piano trios, especially the wonderful first movement, so full of surprises and unexpected turns.

What about the Archduke Rich?

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Rod Corkin wrote:

Wolfpaw wrote: Schubert's great Eb trio is one of my favourite piano trios, especially the wonderful first movement, so full of surprises and unexpected turns. What about the Archduke Rich?

Enjoyable, and preferable to the version I have on modern instruments. The Archduke, apart from certain moments, has never been a work that's grabbed me much, despite it's obvious intrinsic musical greatness. I could be persuaded to purchase this CD though. Repeating the trio worked well. It gives the scherzo a grandeur to match the first movement and the slow movement.

Wolfpaw wrote:

Enjoyable, and preferable to the version I have on modern instruments. The Archduke, apart from certain moments, has never been a work that's grabbed me much, despite it's obvious intrinsic musical greatness. I could be persuaded to purchase this CD though. Repeating the trio worked well. It gives the scherzo a grandeur to match the first movement and the slow movement.

I think the Archduke has been performed in such a lame manner traditionally I'm surprised it became such an elevated piece in the repertoire. Even on period instruments there's not a recording I can recommend 100%. Maybe in my lifetime someone can come up with the goods...

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